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How to date this PPSH-41 ?
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Author:  SOE1 [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 13:17 pm ]
Post subject:  How to date this PPSH-41 ?

I have owned this for some years and it is an early specification deact. I was considering parting with it and then my attention was drawn to it possibly being Post-WW2 manufactured. Where the date stamp should be there is a feint, what looks to be, 194 mark. Is it possible to tell from this and other details if this is of Wartime manufacture? Advice and comments much appreciated. Regards, Clive.

Author:  SOE1 [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 13:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to date this PPSH-41 ?

Image 2

Author:  SOE1 [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 13:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to date this PPSH-41 ?

Image 3

Author:  SOE1 [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 13:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to date this PPSH-41 ?

Image 4 - Feint stampings where date of Manufacture should be

Author:  SOE1 [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 13:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to date this PPSH-41 ?

Image 5 - Final

Author:  al693000 [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 16:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to date this PPSH-41 ?

Looks post war to me, late production certainly especially if it comes with flip-uprear sight.

And if so I think they were only issued with 32 round box mags.

Author:  REME 245 [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 16:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to date this PPSH-41 ?

It has a Russian rebuild stamp on it so I would be inclined to say 1940's.

Most post-war production occured in China or other eastern block countries.

Author:  Andrei Kozlov [ Tue Aug 23, 2011 20:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to date this PPSH-41 ?

Muzzle brake looks odd to me, never seen one like that before.

I agree that most postwar production and indeed use was outside of the SSSR, although this does look to have cyrillic characters on it and not latin ones, but that could mean its Bulgarian and not Soviet - you can't see the actual arsenal mark, its been worn/filed off.

Only the Chinese Type 50 SMG only accepts stick mags, all the other variants accept both.

Author:  SOE1 [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 14:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to date this PPSH-41 ?

Many thanks for the comments and observations, much appreciated. I will attach some further images of other markings which may help further to pin-piont the manufacture date. Still unsure if it is WW2 or later. Regards, Clive.

Author:  SOE1 [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 14:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to date this PPSH-41 ?

Image 7

Author:  SOE1 [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 14:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to date this PPSH-41 ?

Image 8

Author:  SOE1 [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 14:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to date this PPSH-41 ?

Image 9

Author:  SOE1 [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 14:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to date this PPSH-41 ?

Image 10

Author:  SOE1 [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 14:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to date this PPSH-41 ?

Image 11 - Final. Muzzle End without dust cap.

Author:  REME 245 [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 15:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to date this PPSH-41 ?

I would still say that it is 1940 something of Russian manufacture but you are never going to know the answer 100%

The hatched square is a russian rebuild mark and one of the markings could be a Tula Hammer, but it would not have been made there.

Note also this web site.

http://www.ppsh41.com/markings1.htm

Author:  Andrei Kozlov [ Wed Aug 24, 2011 18:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to date this PPSH-41 ?

I would tend to agree with REME. Soviet, but when I don't know. The non-tangent back site makes it late 42 onwards, but also check this link to look at the receiver pin as this should probably tell you another dating marker:

http://www.ppsh41.com/Versions2.html

Remember the SSSR stopped production in 1945, so even if your quite clearly (IMHO) PPSH is dated 1945, is that "wartime" or not? Technically the SSSR was at war with Japan until long after 1945!!! I'd say any Soviet PPSh is "wartime".

I understand the strange muzzle now! Never seen one of those caps before!

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