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 Post subject: dating my .30 A4
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 17:09 pm 
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Any help in dating my .30 A4

#158769

Remington arms

1917(7 crossed out and overstamped 9) A4


tripod is marked

Mount tripod
Cal .30 M2

B ET H

1952


Cheers

Ian

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 Post subject: Re: dating my .30 A4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:49 am 
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NOW...
You are very lucky... your gun was previously a 1917 and then later became a 1919 A4 the change was not a common practice but it happen quite often so I guess that your weapon is an early serie.. beginning of 1941/42..

for the tripod is a post war with the date 1952.. BUT some pictures will help me more

Thanks

Have a great day
Greg

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 Post subject: Re: dating my .30 A4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:08 am 
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Ian...

Try dating girls it's much more fun mate... :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: dating my .30 A4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:29 am 
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LAH 650 wrote:
Ian...

Try dating girls it's much more fun mate... :wink:


That's a good one....I did that a lot now I cannot do it anymore.... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: dating my .30 A4
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:23 am 
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Cheers Greg

Any easier to date an A6?

Ian

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 Post subject: Re: dating my .30 A4
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:01 am 
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A6 were produced from the 1919A4...and a specific mark was applied on the gun...1919A6...
Now it's a little bit confusing because the different models of the 1919, came out of the 1919A2 the "cavalry Machine gun"... the A6 was developped during ww2 and his tecnical manual (9-206) was edited the 1st of september 1943... so for the dating this is what i know..

Now to be extra sure that your A6 is 100% ww2 there are some details you should look for...

I added 2 picture the first is is the early version of the A6....

the second is the late model of the A6 with the flash hider and the improved carrying handle... late 44 begginig 45 it was also very much used in Corea...(so be careful)

Thanks to ICOR for the 3rd picture were you can see some of the details i'm talking about on the field.. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: dating my .30 A4
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:37 am 
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cheers again Greg

Its the late war/post war version

will dig it out and get the serial # etc

Its defo a saginaw marked A6

thanks

Ian

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 Post subject: Re: dating my .30 A4
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:16 pm 
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ok...you have an A6...can you show me pictures...

And for the models..
SPARPLUG GENERAL MOTORS (more .50 than .30)
BORER CITIES
BUFFALO ARMS
COLT also 0.50
HIGH STANDARD (more .50 than .30)
KELSEY HAYES (more .50 than .30)
REMINGTON
ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL ( a lot of 1917 A1)
SACO LOWELL
SAGINAW ( 1919A4 and 1919A6)
SAVAGE ARMS (more .50)
SPRINGFIELD ARMORY
WESTINGHOUSE

Cheers Greg.. the big One...

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 Post subject: Re: dating my .30 A4
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 13:23 pm 
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I cant do pics myself but ill get my 'man' on it

Thanks again

Ian

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 Post subject: Re: dating my .30 A4
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 21:13 pm 
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Real Name: Matt
I realize this is an old thread but you have a conversion 1917 to 1919a4. It started life as a 1917 Remington. Most of these were converted between 1939 and 1942. I would need pics of the underside of the bottom plate and the stamping there. probably a letter D a 5 digit number perhaps a -another number MP RIA. There was a series of bottom plates specifically for converting ww1to the "new" bottom plate design. The WW1 guns had a bottom plate that dovetailed into the sideplates, then the sideplates bottom edge was swaged upwards to pinch the plate into position. The bottom edge of the WW1 guns were also bullnosed (rounded on the outside edge) The swaging process and bullnose required a different profile for the channels that the sideplates rested in. The MP designation we believe meant Modified Part. As said before there are about 4 patterns of these plates which helps us narrow down when it is likely this gun was changed to its current specs.

Pics would like to see
1. Underside of bottom plate
2. Sideplate engraving and all stamp overs, ordnance marks flaming bomb locations. Look for Letter stamps, there should be inspector stamp letter like EEC. (Major E.E Chapman was Remingtons inspector) there should also be RIA, or AA, SA, or perhaps some other marking. That will be the arsenal that converted it. This one likely is RIA
3. Any markings on top of trunnion
4. View looking forward of rear of gun showing dovetail channels at bottom edge of Left side llate and right plate.
5. View looking down showing top of rear of gun for any stampings on top plate (not the feed cover) along the top edges of left and right side plates. You should see ordnance flaming bombs either right in front of sight riser or beside the trunnion, you should also see a stylised X in one of those locations

Thanks
Matt
cof2REMOVEndfla2ATVERIZONDOTNET remove the remove and convert the rest to contact.


Last edited by gulfstateguard on Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: dating my .30 A4
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:07 am 
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OK, did a little poking around. Did not find the production numbers just yet. Remington's endurence tests they performed may give us somr indication of a production time frame though. Sadly the approx time frame of this serial number there were 4 tests that the info was not recorded of the guns involved but test 40 was ser 157250 on 2/10/1919. Test 45 serial number 159,750 3/04/1919. It is probably safe to assume your gun was produced late February of 1919. Ill try to find more. Note- every 500th gun was suppossed to be tested, they tested guns between 4-8 days apart. Sometimes more sometimes less, by backtracking the dates it may have fallen between Feb 19th and 24th. Thats a guestimate assumming they didnt vary too far from their other testing.


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 Post subject: Re: dating my .30 A4
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:14 pm 
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Real Name: Matt
Heee are a couple pics of the top edges of 2 Westinghouse conversion to 1919a4 left side plates, you can see the ordnance bombs next to where the trunnion would be. You also can see the stylised X in front of the sight riser. My Remington sideplate the X is beside the trunnion as well. If you look on the side of the sight riser you may find an RIA stamping and drawing number. Also look to see if there are any markings on top or elsewhere on the trunnion. Rock Island handled converting most of these and they had a habit of stamping their parts that were added in the changover for quality control purposes.
This is not a great pic of the stamping on the sight riser but the purpose of the pic was showing the three dimples. It is suspected that the dimples on bottom plates were placed there to record how many times these were refurbished. Image


Image
Image

Here are the trunnion stampings on my Westinghouse. This particular drawing number refers to a 1938 dated drawing. They started converting guns in March 1939, They made changes to the drawing in either late 39 or early 1940 so this drawing number narrow down that this gun was most likely amongst the first ones upgraded to a 1919 air cooled. The bottom plate of this one also plaves it very early
Image


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